A Conversation with Dean H. Rao Unnava

Chris Marshall
netWORKed is the official podcast of the UC Davis Graduate School of Management. I am your host, Chris Marshall, Director of Alumni Relations & Network Strategy, and on this podcast, we will feature conversations with industry leaders who are preparing the next generation of inspired, innovative, and collaborative leaders who are committed to making a positive impact.

It's only fitting that the first episode of the netWorked podcast feature the dean! So joining us is the Michael and Joelle Hurlston Dean of the Graduate School of Management at UC Davis is Rao Unnava. Thank you so much for spending some time with us. I'm really looking forward to talking.

Rao Unnava
Thank you very much, Chris, and it's a pleasure to join you.

Chris Marshall
Let's start off with an easy one. What is your favorite part about working at the GSM?

Rao Unnava
Well, that's a great question, Chris, because I came from The Ohio State University where I was for 32 years before coming here. And didn't know very much about UC Davis when I first came here. But then started recognizing the power of the UC system and how highly ranked UC Davis is in so many fields. And the faculty at the Graduate School of Management are some of the best in the country, research-wise. We are up there along with some of the top schools in what we do here.

The staff are tireless in how they contribute to make this place better every day. And then we have some really nice, collaborative students who are not competing with each other on a daily basis, but more collaborative, and helping each other to succeed. So, it brings together a very good group of positive faculty, staff and students that make life very interesting to me. Because we can all work together towards new things, new ideas, new trends that are happening in business education, and set ourselves apart in the long run as one of the best business schools in the country. I think I can do all those things, because of the people that I work with. So, if I had to summarize - it's the people.

Chris Marshall
I can confirm that I also, enjoy the people here on campus. And you mentioned you worked 32 years at The Ohio State University. But also, being one of the founders of what is now known as Angie’s List, which is pretty exciting.

What would you say from your background and experience that helps you to be the best at your job as dean?

Rao Unnava
Thank you. The time that I had at Ohio State was really fascinating. That's where I landed from India. And there was a very welcoming university, a very progressive city that I enjoyed being in for all those 32 years that I was there. I had a very good experience as a faculty member, then as an administrator at Fisher College of Business where I was.

And then time had come when I said it's time for a change, I want to do something different. When UC Davis called asking if I would be interested in applying for the Dean's position. But as a faculty member, you get to do a lot of things. Not only do you do your original research that you publish in academic journals, but you also, sometimes work on consulting projects with some corporate clients, you help students get placed, and therefore you get to make some connections with companies and talk to them about what's going on. You bring those companies into your classrooms. And so, you kind of know what's going on out there. As you hear these executives tell you some of the challenges that they're facing.

So, it's a very dynamic life as a faculty member, and in that process. And I have to say there is something in the American water because it just makes everybody entrepreneurial. I felt that there was a gap in the market and started doing some research. Because when I tried to buy myself a TV, I knew I had to go and look in Consumer Reports. And the same is true with a camera or a camcorder whatever I bought. But when I needed somebody to put a central humidifier in my house, I didn't know where to go.

I just had to ask a lot of friends and they didn't know really. I mean that was a very specific thing to be looking for. Absolutely. And I needed it and nobody knew what it was. Ultimately if friend advised me but then the thought came to my mind that there is no service that actually provides this kind of information about the reliable service providers that you can go to if you have a need, like the one I'm talking about.

Another problem with service providers is that not all reliable. So, you may actually ended up making a wrong choice and have a half-finished job after making a payment that you cannot recover. So, these are some of the issues that many people are facing on a daily basis. And so, I thought that it would be nice idea to put a list of providers together based on recommendations from our neighbors. So, commissioned a market research project and then slowly ended up becoming growing into Angi as it is called now and was Angie's List before that.

It was a very, very good experience going through that process, understanding how companies are built over a long period of time. And the notion that, you know, we are accustomed to these one or two year, unicorns that happen once in a while in Silicon Valley. And we think that's probably what every company goes through. But that's not true generally - actually, I read an article that said that the average time it takes for a startup to become one of the bigger companies in this country is about 15 to 16 years. And that's exactly what it took for Angie's List to go IPO because we started in 1995, and IPO in 2011. So, it's a great experience.

Chris Marshall
Talking about entrepreneurial spirit and innovation. And that is one of the things I enjoy most about being here at UC Davis being at the forefront being cutting edge, having the opportunity to be a part of some firsts in the University of California system. Online MBA being the first here at Davis of all the UCs and also, a new deferred tuition plan that's coming into play. What can you tell us about that?

Rao Unnava
Oh, the deferred tuition plan was an interesting idea. Because one of the things that we see always being talked about is scholarships to students. And we do give scholarships to students who applied to our programs.

But the thing about the scholarship is, let's just take a hypothetical case, let's say the degree will cost you $100,000, and they gave you a $25,000 scholarship, you'll still come to the program, spending $75,000 on tuition, and then end up paying maybe six to eight percent interest on that if you take that money as a loan.

And for many people, even the availability of a loan was a problem because of multiple reasons. Maybe they don't have enough of a track record for some bank to give them that money, or they don't like taking a loan because they feel that this is interest that is accumulating that they don't want to pay.

So, we felt that a gap existed in the marketplace, in terms of funding our students not directly through a lump sum scholarship, but something that will enable them to manage their cash flow a little better than what they can without what we are talking about.

So, we had to go through a lot of legal work to make sure that this is something that can be done by an education institution. And its kudos to our provost, actually, who has been very helpful in shepherding us through this process through our interactions with the UC system, as well as hiring lawyers to ensure that we are doing everything by the book. But the plan is very simple.

If you decide to get an MBA at this point, it's online MBA, that we are trying this width, and you feel that you want to pay half of your tuition after you graduate and not when you're taking the classwork you are then welcome to first finish off the first half of the curriculum and pay your tuition like everybody does, but defer the second half of the tuition to after you graduate. And then you pay it back over up to 10 years, and there is no interest that is charged. So, in that hypothetical case of $100,000 program, you only pay $50,000 and then finish off the program and then pay the remaining $50,000, but there is no interest.

So, if for example, you took three more months to get a new job that you want it So, you're out of job for three months, you don't pay any interest on the amount that's outstanding. That's what led to several people saying this is a different product. It gives me something like a scholarship. But it's different because it's actually helping me manage my cash flow during the latter half of my program when I don't have to put any money down for my tuition. And that makes my life a lot more stressful. And that is the first of its kind in the United States.

Not just when you think about business schools, but it is the first university that has done anything like this. And now we're starting to get a lot of people asking us questions on how to go about doing it. Because they also have to go through the same process we have gone through, but because now they're consulting with us, they know exactly how to do it and not do all the things that we had to do, just because the answers that are already provided for them. So, we are really recognized as a pioneer in terms of making education accessible to more people than it otherwise would have been.

Chris Marshall
And I think there's a certain calculation of return on investment when you're looking at any graduate program. And I think it's important to point out a distinction that our own MSBA program was recently recognized for.

Rao Unnava
Absolutely, in fact, one of the nice things about all the programs we have run is the care we have taken to ensure that the students don't go through the program, and then don't see a benefit that came out of it. And the market data are starting to show the results. And as you correctly pointed out, the MSBA program that we launched several years ago, recently was ranked by the QS ranking system as number one in the world, in terms of the return on investment over a 10-year period. So, our students who are paying whatever fees they're paying, are getting some of the highest returns in the country for that.

Now, our MBA program has also, been recognized as one of the top 15 schools in the country in terms of the return on investment our students get by US News and World Report. And our impact program has always placed 100% of the students irrespective of whether they're domestic or international, to be able to get their jobs here, and therefore, justify the investment they have made in education at UC Davis. So, that's a fact that I'm very proud of that when a student comes here, not only do they have a very collaborative culture that they pursue their education in, but they also, see the returns after they have finished their degree program.

Chris Marshall
And that is certainly something that's important to all of us here. Another first that happened was Financial Times hosting their MBA biz quiz event here on campus. It was a fantastic event that we're looking forward to hosting again in the future. And we also, had some students that placed quite well in the competition.

Rao Unnava
We did, and that's an idea that we were thinking about, what are some of the interesting things we can do with the MBA population. And as you look around, most schools normally do a case competition, which we also do in the Food and Ag area.

But we thought an interesting way to test their business knowledge was by developing a current events, quiz competition based on the students reading Financial Times. Now many people don't know but Financial Times is the most read business magazine in the world. We don't know about it as much because it's Europe-oriented.

But they are making strides in the United States and currently are number two in terms of business news reporting. So, we worked with them to develop a competition where teams of three students each from the UC schools, as a first step, we piloted this would really sit in an environment much like Jeopardy. And there are questions that we developed based on the reading of financial times over 45 days. And once we ask the question, the students will have to respond. So, they have buzzers and they have to hit the buzzers very quickly. And whoever hits it first will get a chance to answer. It was quite intense.

And Chris, you probably have experienced it yourself because we were lucky to have you as one of the folks who moderated the competition by asking the students the questions.

Chris Marshall
Which I have to say was probably almost as stressful as trying to come up with the answer. Right? Make sure that I get everything right, and call on the right people.

Rao Unnava
Absolutely. And it was actually, the tension was palpable in the room because the competition and the spirit of competition was very high.

And we did well. UC Davis actually ended up placing second in the team competition and then there was also, an individual level competition where students answered questions that was posed to them in a written format. And there both the second and third place winners worked from UC Davis. So, we did well.

Financial Times was very happy with how we have managed to conduct the competition. The students and the coach who came with the students told us that this was the best competition that they have attended. Kudos to our team here that has made it happen.

And they are going to do it again, this November, they want us to expand the number of teams, the prize money will be going up a little bit. So, it becomes much bigger than what it was last year. And pretty soon this will be one of those events that will be it will be live-streamed, of course, the finals was live streamed, and we saw people watch it.

In fact, we got a very nice letter of thanks from one of the students who was in the finals, but he is from India. And when we did the finals, and we live- streamed it, his folks in India, were able to watch the competition live. Of course, the student was also, very happy because his team won the competition. And he was one of the key players in that.

But the whole idea that you can do something like this in Davis, California, and somebody's sitting in a remote city in India can watch it live and enjoy what we are doing here is just wonderful. And we hope that we will actually be able to tell our alumni to participate in that and watch it because it's very exciting. As you said, when you sit in the room, your heart is actually pounding as the question is being asked, and you're trying to of course, get an answer yourself.

But you're also wondering, because you're rooting for some team or other, and your heart is pounding to just like watching the Superbowl when you're really rooting for a team. So, we are very excited that this unique experience of a business quiz competition is now owned by us. Because we have copyrighted that this biz quiz, as we call it. Financial Times, which is a very highly regarded business publication is our partner. And so, the visibility for the UC Davis Graduate School of Management is very high from this competition.

Chris Marshall
Absolutely. And it's a great showcase of all the talent we have here in all the programs at GSM. We talked about the students, but we haven't talked as much about the alumni yet. And there's some exciting things and some programs that maybe the alumni aren't taking advantage of or don't know about, obviously, lifelong learning coming up stackable certificates, but also, the  opportunity to audit classes and continue on their learning journey at GSM, while also, continuing to get value from their degree.

Rao Unnava
And that's true, Chris. The faculty spend a lot of time thinking about alumni. And I say this very often to people I meet, the reputation of a business school rests on the shoulders of their faculty, and their alumni. All of us, including the dean is a facilitator for that reputation to build. So, whatever we can do to help our faculty to do the job they're doing. And whatever we can do to help the alumni progress in their careers is what ultimately builds our reputation.

As we evaluated this, we started seeing some trends. And again, we're going to be one of the first ones in this country to do some of the things we are talking about. The first thing we discovered is that our alumni, when I meet them, and I met several of them in the last seven years, have told me that there are times when they wish they had attended a class that they didn't, because they just didn't have the time. Or they wish they can get the notes back from the class because they knew that they had covered that material in the class, which they need now, seven to 10 years later.

So, the faculty discussed this. And we came up with the idea of asking our alumni who feel that they would benefit from attending a class once again, for whatever reason, they should be able to come back to the classroom without having to pay any fees. That's something that the faculty and as we decided, is the right thing to do for our alumni because their growth and their progress means a lot to us.

So, if there are alumni who feel that there is a class that's going on in the San Ramon campus, and they are in the Bay Area, and they would like to audit that class, they're welcome to write to us, and we will be able to work with the instructor to accommodate them. The only constraints are that we don't want the number of alumni in the class to exceed the number of students in the class. And so, we try to limit the numbers but that's the only constraint. It goes a lot at a distance when you say that this is something that the entire faculty has agreed on.

It shows the character of the faculty because I don't think there are many business schools around the world who open up their classrooms to their alumni free of charge for their lives. And that's what we are doing. That's number one. We then looked at other developments that are taking place and are on the verge of launching what we call a stackable certificate program.

And the reason this program is being considered by us and against the faculty who put all of this together, is the way jobs are right now, it's possible that you may not be willing to just give up two or three years of your life and pursue an advanced degree that it's not that all of the people are like that. But there are several people who would like to probably not take two or three years out of their lives and get a degree all at once.

Now, the full time and the part time programs, we have required you to take classes every quarter, that's the requirement. It's just that you take more classes every quarter in the full-time. So, you'll finish it in 18 months or 21 months, including summer, as against a part-time program that you've finished most likely in nine to 10 quarters.

Now, what we discovered is a professional might be starting out where they finish the first three or four years of their career, they have shown promise, and their supervisor thinks that they should be able to lead a team. And at that time, the student doesn't need corporate strategy and leadership at the highest levels, or finance, or accounting, they probably need team skills, negotiating skills, those are the classes that they're looking for in order for them to effectively manage a team.

So, we broke up the MBA program into what we think are certificates that are reasonable and make sense given the nature of one's job. So, they can take a certificate in team skills, negotiations and such things.

And these are regular courses that we offer in the MBA program. So, they will actually be taking these classes online, with all the rigor we have put in place for the online program.

And once they are done with these classes, they will get a certificate that they have finished the team skills, but they can use it right away in their job because that's exactly what their supervisor has asked him to do. Now fast forward a couple of years, they have distinguished themselves again, and now they're being promoted to be a manager of division.

Let's say they're a product manager. Now they need some idea of financial skills and accounting skills, because that's how they're managing division. So, they can come back to us and take a certificate in that area. So, we extend the MBA program to more than the three years and offer them certificates as they go along. Now they don't have to finish the entire sequence of certificates, there may come a point where they say I have these three certificates, and I'm fine with what I have.

And that's over. Now think about a person who joined the MBA program and only did half of the program and decided to quit, they will walk away with nothing other than the fact that they have a transcript showing that they have completed some classes. In the stackable certificates program, even if you decide you don't want more certificates, you do have your two, three, four, whatever be the number of certificates, you wanted. But if you fulfill the requirements of the MBA program in terms of credit hours by taking these certificates, you can get the MBA by stacking these certificates and saying now that I have completed the requirements, can I get my MBA?

And the answer is yes, we may have certain things we do towards the end, where we bring you all together to have a common experience. So, we can put it all together once more for you. But the idea is to get you a certificate or a degree based on what your needs are. This is the way the world is progressing. And we are doing that.

Now, take it even beyond that. What happens to somebody who has graduated five years ago, and has just started experiencing that the world is changing around them, and they feel a little unequipped to deal with it. And this is not going to be a unique experience to one person. This is something that's happening to us as faculty. What we have taught 15 years ago is not what we are teaching today.

And the same is going to happen to all the alumni because the world is changing rapidly. And we decided that they need a place for them to come to and continue to learn the material that will rescale them as needed, or upskill them when needed. Because 15 years ago there were no YouTube specialists, there was no WhatsApp campaign person.

Now, that's what you need. There was no cloud services specialist before we need somebody like that now. And so, what we are doing is creating a platform for our alumni. And I'm hoping really that we will be able to launch it by the fall, and we'll be communicating this to the people. If we end up launching it in fall, the platform will be a place where all the lectures that we have professionally recorded, will be made available to the alumni so they don't have to really keep notes anymore, because all of these are updated lectures from the materials that they have been exposed to, by the same faculty that they have worked with when they were here.

And of course, there are several new faculty that we have brought in. So, the first thing is that if you felt that you are pushed into a mergers and acquisitions situation at work, and you just want to go back and refer to some of the notes from your classes, you can just go on this website, of course, it's firewalled, and you need a user ID and password, but once you get in as an alum of the Graduate School of Management, you will be able to access the lectures in the mergers and acquisitions class. And so you will actually then be able to say,” Okay, now I understand what this is”.

Now, we are also trying to build a community of our alumni.  So, if you are an alum who has this challenge, and you say, “I wish I can talk to two or three of my alumni friends in the network, who can advise me?,” you can host a meeting on zoom on this website.

So, your alumni network will start working for you. When you send out a note saying I have this challenge that I'm dealing with, I need some people to help me with how to approach this. I'm hosting a one hour session on Tuesday, where anybody can walk in and kind of tell me how to deal with this topic, chances are a couple alumni will show up, 10 alumni will show up, we don't know what it is. But they will tell you because you are part of the GSM family. So, that's one more provision.

 And finally, one of the things that we have discovered from the employers is that they want their employees to be rescaled, or upskilled. But they want them to be credentialed, not just say that I have taken a class, but they want them to actually earn certificates. Now the problem is if you just Google for certificates, even for something like blockchain, you will probably get five to 600 programs that are available out there.

How do you know which program you should sign up for, you may probably look at the length of the program, you may probably look at the price of the program. And probably you are the one spending the money, where our employers that we spoke to told us that if there is a certificate that they can get, and we make it available to our alumni, they will be willing to pay a certain amount of money for them to get those certificates.

But we are the ones who will be curating them for you. So, our plan is to actually put up to 1,000 certificates that we can make available to all our alumni at a very small fee, $500 to $600 a year, which most employers are willing to pay for their employees, because these people then get skilled in certain areas that are the state of the art. And therefore they don't have to worry about hiring new people for these tasks, their current employees can actually do that, because they have learned from the best.

So, these are the multiple things that we are making available for our alumni starting very soon. The classes right now, stackable certificates. Hopefully we'll announce it in the next month. And then the Lifelong Learning Platform, hopefully by September.

Chris Marshall
That's really exciting. Obviously, having the backing of UC Davis does a great job of taking some of the guesswork out of it.

Rao Unnava
That's exactly where we are going. Our faculty would have looked through that there are other faculty who are looking through the certificate programs to make sure that the content is right. And of course, our faculty will actually be developing small videos on latest topics. And those will also, be posted on this netWorked.

Chris Marshall
There's certainly no shortage of opportunities and events for alumni to get involved. One of those is Biz Bridge, our mentorship program, which has been a great way for students and alumni to connect on a more meaningful level.

Rao Unnava
That is such a fantastic idea that we worked on for quite some time. There are several ways by which alumni networks are managed. What we discovered is that if there is an advanced solution that's available, we should subscribe to it and then do what we do best which is bring our alumni and students together rather than trying to build the solution ourselves.

So, Mentor Collective is the company that we are working with. And what we do there is to bring our alumni mentors who have agreed to be mentors, with some students who say that they need some mentoring as they negotiate various aspects of the program.

Now, I have heard nothing but great things about our alumni how they have been helpful.  It's just been wonderful to hear the kudos given out by our current students, and how helpful our alumni have been.

Now, I also, have heard from the alumni who have been advising the students saying how much fun it was for them to talk to students who are themselves 10 years ago, 15 years ago, it reminded them of their experiences at GSM. And the nostalgia was a pleasant one.

They enjoyed that experience, they said, so, I think it's one of those be the cliche when you say win-win, but the students are getting a lot out of that. The alumni say that they're getting a lot of that. And in the process, the network that we have of our alumni is strengthening.

So, I encourage all alumni who are interested in being a mentor, to please sign up to this metric like to when you get an invitation, you will be rewarded in many ways just because the students are So, wonderful. They have interesting questions. They ask us about things that, you know, we probably experienced when we were in the MBA program ourselves, which is a pleasant recollection for all of us. So, it's just a good environment to be there with the UC Davis GSM students.

Chris Marshall
And obviously, events are a great opportunity for students to interact with alums and vice versa, and for alumni to interact with each other. On February 9, we had one of our signature events, Peer-to-Pier at the City Club in San Francisco, we had about 130 alumni, students, faculty and staff in attendance to honor three of our alumni. Don't worry if you missed it this year, that's okay. Mark your calendars for February 8, 2024. As it will be back again next year. What are some of the highlights of Peer-to-Pier for you?

Rao Unnava
The Peer-to-Pier event is one of my favorite events. It is in the Bay Area, it is a very well attended event. And one of the nice parts about that event is that we get to recognize our alumni who have made significant strides, either professionally or in the contributions they make back to the GSM in many ways. So, this year, once again, as you said, there were 125-130people there that we had a chance to meet. There were alumni who were excited about the direction that we were going in as a business school. It was not one person, but it was just many who told us that this is not the GSM that they remember, just because of the multiple new things that are happening.

And so, it adds a lot of excitement to ourselves when we hear that because we do need some type of validation for what it is that we are doing. So, just to see all those students and alumni and the joy in the room itself is very rewarding. I remember driving back that night, and feeling so fulfilled just to see some of these people whom I have seen in the last seven years as students here and doing very well in their jobs.

The part of recognition is the other thing that's really my just fantastic. You see these people, you meet these people, and you know a little bit about them, maybe a little bit more about some people. But it's only when you start seeing their nominations and start seeing who these award winners are. That just started realizing my god, they have done so much in their lives already.

And so, it's just a joy because the excellence that you see around you, is very motivating. You want to just go home and start working again just because of the level of achievement that you have seen. So, we had recognized Aaron Carpenter this year as a distinguished alumnus for all his accomplishments after his MBA.

We had Jimmy Butler who has been recognized for his service, amazing friend of GSM in so many ways, his participation in various activities that we have here.

And Sonic Prabhudesai from the MSBA program as an early start, that is emerging now as one of the successes of the future. And then you hear from them, and you see their nominations, and you go, “Well, I have nothing to do with it, I'm so glad I'm part of it.”

It's just a very good feeling. So, as Chris said, if you have not been there before, please mark your calendars and be there next year, because it is truly a heartwarming event that I love very much and  enjoy every year.

Chris Marshall
Absolutely. And this is the perfect opportunity to plug nominating your peers for alumni awards. Generally, we start the nomination process in the fall, but start thinking about that now, for your peers that are award-worthy, we would obviously love to have them at our Peer to Pier event, as well as you and every event we have coming up. So, make sure to nominate your peers or even yourself when the nominations open up. But before we go, I want to give you one last opportunity to tell us something you're excited about.

Rao Unnava
Oh, wow. I think all the things that we're doing are really cutting edge. If I look around the business schools in this country, we don't see any one business school doing all the things that we are doing. There could be one school doing one of the things that we're doing, another school doing a second thing that we're doing, but all of them coming together in one school is relatively rare.

And the credit really goes to the people here in the building the faculty, and the staff and the students, I often tell them that because they are so collaborative and work well together with each of them. I don't have to as many of the deans sometimes have to do, you know resolve fights between people.

And so, I have that extra time that I tell people compared to many of the deans just because of the group that I work with. So there is much more happening.

One is that we are launching a Master's of Management program, which is again, the first of its kind in the UC system. And then we are also, getting closer and closer to potentially launching an undergraduate business major.

That's something that's been discussed for the last 25 years but has not happened. But looks like it might happen. It's a strong economics-based curriculum that faculty have developed. Three departments are coming together to make it happen. The economics department, the agricultural resource economics department and the Graduate School of Management, when the program is launched, it will be housed in the School of Management will become College of Management at the time, because we now have an undergrad degree being given out. But it'll be a big deal for us, because we will get 300 of the best and brightest in the country to be attending that program, which will create a very different kind of energy from what we have in the building.

So, those are some of the great things that are happening, we are also, hoping to expand the deferred tuition plan that we have put in place. And that requires probably what I would say is some LMI support. And the reason I say that is we are fronting the money to make the program happen. But once the first few years of the program run, we should be able to take the money that is getting paid by the people who have benefited from the program to plug it back into the program.

And so, the first few years is where we are definitely in need of some support from our alumni. So, I would say to all those who are hearing this, please expect a note from me asking for some support for this program, because it's a worthy cause. It is making education accessible to people who have not ever thought that they would get an MBA, I have spoken to these people who have made use of the program in the pilot that we ran. And they were grateful to the last person saying that if this program was not there, there was no way that I would have even considered an MBA, it would have remained a dream for me.

And these are highly qualified individuals doing very well in their jobs, having a dream of doing even better with an MBA, but not being able to afford it. So, it's a worthy cause where our alumni can come together and make this program what it needs to be. So, those are the exciting things that are happening and continue to give you updates.

We will be actually, Chris and I will be going to multiple places together to meet with our alumni. With the online MBA program. We have what we call residentials. So, there I'm meeting some alumni when I go to the residentials we have things coming up in LA, San Diego, Bay Area, and Sacramento. We have actually met quite a few alumni in the last few months, I hope to continue to do that because it's, it's a great place to be at. And you all, as alumni, are making us all proud with what you accomplish on a daily basis. So, thanks to all the alumni. And I look forward to meeting you all at some point in the future.

Chris Marshall
Thank you for being a part of the netWORKed podcast, presented by the UC Davis Graduate School of Management. To learn more about us, please visit gsm.ucdavis.edu. For more episodes, please be sure to follow us on your favorite podcast platform.